every word in this article realistic

its great to see the opinion of the other side.

as an isreali i realized already few years ago that we are acting from feer. well, after 2000 years of being hunted, have to admit more in europe than in arab countries (but israel was established by european jews and on the otherside the jews from arab countries are the commonly right wing), it isnt surprising that we are paranoyed.

however, i guess that in israel people do not understand that arabs look at us as an extrimely strong nation, who does what ever wants through the short history of more than 50 years. it won the wars against many countries and even took lands. invaded into lebanon and stayed there and no one can stop it. unfortunately, people in israel are frightened. the feeling is that you all want us in the sea – is that true? (i would like to hear answers)

i think that it is just a matter of time untill both sides are ready to compromise. same with the palastinians. the question is how much blood (of both sides) will it cost till..

robert- the key word being *compromise*. israelis will not give up the entire golan. it just won’t happen

Robert,

I totally agree with what you wrote.

Arabs need to realize that many Israelis have genuine fears. Syrians in particular are not frequently communicating with Israelis and therefore, are not very sensitive to this issue.

On the other hand, Israelis are not easy to deal with. I realized from my observations of those who attempted to communicate with the Israelis, is that one needs to walk a very fine line … if Syrians are very accommodating, they provoke the typical Israeli reaction of: “Israel is very strong strong, the Syrians are only nice to us because they are scared from our air force which can destroy their air force in one day”

If, on the other hand, the Syrians decide to be tough, then they risk the other type of negative reaction “They hate us .. Syrians are violent thugs and they want to cheat us into giving them the Golan and then we will be under their mercy”

Those who refuse to return the Golan are of two types: those who have exaggerated fears, and those who still lust for a game of Israel vs Syrian air force where they are very confident that their team (Israel’s air force) will deliver a decisive victory … imagine the fun?

I find myself mentioning both, opposite, types of arguments every time I communicate with an Israeli. Not very efficient, but very much needed .. the only way an agreement can be reached is among equals. We need to convince enough Israelis that they are, overall, equal to Syrians … they are too strong to fear us, and too vulnerable to impose their will on us.

Robert,

Thank you for writing a comment on the article. It is always good to hear the other side, like you said.

I honestly do not know many Syrians who want to throw Israelis in the sea. However, most Syrians I know, including myself, consider Zionism, as it stands today, a form of exclusive racism that simply cannot be dealt with.

Jews have lived in Syria for ages, without prosecution or repression that was specific to them. (The entire population has been under one form of repression or another, but there was no historical singling out of Jews). In the early 20th century, Syrians welcomed thousands of Armenians that were fleeing Turkish prosecution. This could have easily applied to Jews as well. Back then, they were another piece in the colorful Syrian Mosaic.

But when you have a system that occupies your land and kicks you out by force, denies the indigenous people of Palestine the right to return, has institutionalized apartheid against Arabs (where they limited from birth), freely uses deadly force and tells its soldiers not to feel guilty for killing Arabs, as “there are many more Arabs out there,” (the list can go for quite a while,) you are also striking fear and mistrust in hearts and minds of your neighborers.

The point of the article is that, you should probably re-think the strategy of having it your way by means of force. You did not win the 1967 war because you were superhuman or super strong. You won it because – mainly – of Arab leadership corruption, mismanagement, and overall incompetence. How long do you think that advantage will last? Nasrallah is not coming out of a void, you know. Unless you really believe the Hollywood stereotyping industry.

I will remind you that the Arabs of the 1920s and 1930s had just woken up from a 500 year Turkish occupation that suppressed every talent and skill. At the time, you faced simple peasants who knew very little how to organize, and how to fight. That advantage you had is quickly fading away, Robert.

You do not have real peace when you are living on the advantage of a superior war machine. That only breeds fear and hate, and it is unsustainable. We want real peace, and that is a much bigger goal than the Golan.

While I’m sure there are many like Daniel, who apparently thinks that it’s all about power, I am hopeful that there will be more Israelis like yourself, or like the man who once approached me in Amsterdam airport, shook hands and talked peace.

To close, I will say one thing: I really hope that Jews turn out to be as smart as people say they are and make the right moves to help bring security to the future of all our children and grandchildren. I really hope that they can grow out of lusting for another war to win and show the Arabs who’s boss. My prediction, in all honesty, is that you will repeat the all-too-human mistakes all over again, thinking that you can live by the sword.

Peace.

Mazen Salhi

shalom and salam to you freinds,

shortly, but i will return.

first, thanks alot for the long comments – it mean that we all care about the region.

well, as an academic, i have the great oportunity to travel and meets arabs and persians (who clarified that they dont belong to the arabs) (unfortnately not enough) but i get the same reaction most of the time.

commonly its starts by a frighting feelings. only after i convince that i truely understand your point of view they are opened. begining suspicious but then it gets better, but not always.

well, many things to say. first, i am sure that there are many people in israel who are willing to have a PEACE but cant trust the arabs.

the clear fact which you all dont mention is that the arab world started a war against the small jewish population in 48 just after the UN announcment. since then it is all history…
— it is still hard to believe that you are truely agree to have us here – is it? i have to admit that i am still not sure about this.

however, i see the region in not more than 15 years (hopefully less) in PEACE. i see israel contirbuting the region with all what we can contirbute in technology and knolwedge in many aspects: agriculture, water, medicine and other. dont get me wrong – its not that i think that you need us, i just think that we have to outperform as contributive neighbors in order to be wellcomed.

last question. in case there is PEACE and israel is expected to gain alot of success (mainly economic, as it is currently somehow blosked by the unsteady situation) – what will be our neighbors reaction? wouldnt they fill like we are mostly gained it.

as i said many things to say and many questions, to which authentic and ohnest answers will be appreciated.

for contributions and PEACE!

robert, tel aviv

Robert,

Thank you for your note above.

As I tried to explain, I think that the matter is much deeper than the Golan. There is the question of the right of return of the refugees which were terrorized out of their homes, the question of al-Quds, the apartheid system which Israel imposes on its Arab citizens. The subject of the Golan is only one of many interrelated subjects.

I will say it again. It is not about real estate and the Syrians and Arabs are not going to beg for their rights, no matter how long this takes.

I will remind you, if I may, of one simple fact. You people came from Europe and built your state on the devastation of another people who were still breathing (and still are,) based on a belief system you marketed and sold to the powerful countries of the world. To accomplish that on the ground, you used excessive amounts of force and violence, and caused unthinkable pain and agony to a people who were not responsible for any of your sufferings.

To maintain this status, you are finding that you are in need of ever increasing amounts of force and power. More F-16s, more weapons, more Apaches, more missiles, more corrupt US politicians, more laser cannons, nuclear weapons, and boy, it’s a long list.

What I am saying is that this escalation cannot go on forever, and that the military is not a solution at all. You won over classical armies, but are unable to win against “smaller” adversaries. And time, really, is not on your side, Robert. In 1967 Israel defeated the armies of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan combined, when they had equal equipment to yours (maybe even better) and had the Soviet Union behind them. Today the great US of A is unable to defeat one single Arab country that has been starved, embargoed, and cut off from any support for over a decade. And I’m talking about the country, not the regime.

You have to agree that the Arabs have learned a thing or two in the 40 years that have passed since your great day of glory. And when the US eventually leaves Iraq as an occupying force, where does that leave the “force” option? Where does it leave a country that seemingly believes in nothing else but power? Where does it leave the state that was first to declare its relief of the fall of Baghdad? Have you thought about that, Robert?

Instead, Israel is now encouraging the US to attack Iran. An attack that, if it happens, would gain you the hostility of the Persian race (a historical first,) and would very likely fuse the hedge between the Shia and Sunna of the Muslim World.

Maybe we aught to re-think the essence of the problem for a change. Maybe we need to sit down and think about the future of our children as the fellow human beings that we all are.

My personal belief is that to have a real and lasting peace, there should be one state for all its citizens: Arab and Jew. A democratic, secular Palestine/Israel, where everyone has a place as equal.

What is so terrible about that, Robert? Why does it seem to scare Israelis to death? Why do you have to insist on defeating and humiliating the Arab? Are there any reasons, other than that fact that (so far) you’ve been able to, that is?

I would full heartedly accept that Jews belong in this land if you would accept that Arabs also belong in it. The very Arabs that your fathers expelled at gunpoint. What is so terrible about that? South Africa did it. Rhodesia did it. It can certainly be done.

Robert,

I think it is important that we both start recognizing the basics:

1) No two human beings are identical in their opinions and beliefs. Yet there is this automatic simplification to “the Arabs” and “the Israelis”

2) People change … what holds true today, may not be true few years from now.

3) Most human beings react positively to good gestures from the other side.

So the answer to your question is simple: If Israel (the mighty Israel) finally accepts 242 and 338, and goes back to the kind of settlement that Prime minister Rabin was going for in the nineties, then I am confident that most of your neighbors – “the Arabs” – will be happy to treat you like they treat each other.

Please don’t think this is simply a politically correct answer. What I meant is to say that Israel will be treated like an ally by some Arab states, and like a competitor by others … just like they treat each other today. For example, Syria and Saudi Arabia today are more like competitors, not allies. It will be up to Israel to prove itself useful to each of its neighbors to ensure they prefer to be its allies and not its competitors… so it is in your hands to continue to have more friends and less competition…. take everyone’s interest in consideration and you should be nicely appreciated by them.

Having said that, there will be a transition period … not all “Arabs” will quickly forget the bitterness. It might take the region another generation to move more decisively towards total acceptance. Don’t be discouraged if there is no immediate total reversal of current attitudes.

But that is how nature is … we are not dealing with computers that can be reprogrammed in a predictable way.

But again, most Syrians will be happy to welcome a friendly and caring Israel among them … Israelis like you are capable of winning friends easily, I’m sure.

But you need to settle with the Palestinians too … you can’t continue to treat them the way you do today.

Hi all,

you are very fast, i will refer shortly.
from observing what happens here it seems that although we pretend to be PEACE makers we both (me and you) getting back to our original thoughts.
here are few examples:

Mazen wrote:”There is the question of the right of return of the refugees which were terrorized out of their homes, the question of al-Quds, the apartheid system which Israel imposes on its Arab citizens.”
— apartheid system… my freind, look at your brothers in Gaza since israel is out. how many people were killed? the hamas kills the phatach, the phatach kills the hamas. 50 people in two days, children, civilians, weman – tell what do you think about this??? what can you say about us? (i dont want to say that, but i have to. believe me we are not the best, but believe that the israeli soldiers do all they can (at least the majority) to reduce killing. sometimes also they are being killed for that.) however, tell me???? how can we live with such a nation that hate their own children? that send them to their death? that kill each other for not agreeing. see what happened since we are out of Gaza – should we trust them? ANSWER TO THAT PLEASE.

“You people came from Europe and built your state on the devastation of another people who were still breathing (and still are,) based on a belief system you marketed and sold to the powerful countries of the world.”
— my freind we were here during the bible time – it is all in the bible (i am not a religious person, but this is the justificaiton for me to be here). during the past 2000 years we werent here – NO ONE was here, NO ONE. only different rulers: roman, turkish, english, and other – NO ARAB NATION. these rulers, especially the turkish and the english brought workers from the countries around, such as lebanon to work. to built the ports and cet,.. – these people and other traders who moved in are what you call today palastinians. NO NATAION, just people who lived. note that there were also jews in jerusalem. however, after the british left immediatly there was a war. a small population of half milion of holocoust refugees against many arab countries. now when these people left their land and ran to egypt they had to consider the option that when you run away from your home, you might not come back. the truth is that the arab nations never wanted to help the palastinians and many times even killed them when they made problems – and you call us apartheid.

“Instead, Israel is now encouraging the US to attack Iran.”
— today morning i saw a big note on the newpaper. Mofaz (a minister) is flying to the US for two things. tell the american not to attack Iran, as it will burn the entire region and second that they want to start secret negotiations with Syria about retruning the entire Golan (are you calling it Golan too?)
as to your comment about us getting more weapon. look around what happens – do we have a choice? note, that the swiss although being in a war for many years (200?) have one of the most powerful and sophisticated armies in the world. having a strong army doesnt contradcit with a PEACEful nature.

“My personal belief is that to have a real and lasting peace, there should be one state for all its citizens: Arab and Jew. A democratic, secular Palestine/Israel, where everyone has a place as equal.”
— saying this shows how you still dont think that the jews/israelies deserve their own country. like nothing happened since the UN annonced two lands for two nations in 48. as you said you are the majority in the region, you have many people and alot of lands, but still you wouldnt agree to give us this small peace of land. and you are surprised that after YOU attack us and WE took your land within a war we still have to share the land.
My freind please. if you dont accept that we deseve a country then there is nothing to speak about. unfortunately. it is the same that i will tell you that Syria will become a partialy israeli or hebrewian. why not? why shouldnt you speak hebrew? have a start of david on your flag? – dont tell me that this is their land, i asked you who are they?

i will love to hear your opinions.

hoping for better replies.

good day, robert

Robert,

Yes, sir, Israel is an apartheid system. The wrongs of others do not justify your wrong. Every time you use the faults of the Arabs as justification for what you do, you confirm that Israel – as it stands today – is thriving on the corruption of its surrounding neighbors. That it absolutely needs this corruption, mismanagement and violence in order for it to justify its many many systemic flaws.

Do you doubt that the Israeli style of dealing with its adversaries have helped create ever more stubborn and dug-in foes? The first Intifada was peaceful, children throwing rocks. What was the result? More bone breaking, more demolitions, more of the essence of the Israeli state.

Palestinians do not send their children to die because they hate them. How long can you keep dehumanizing them and missing the point, for crying out loud? You have driven these people to a level of agony and humiliation that they want to get at you even if it means killing themselves. I do not endorse suicide bombings, but it’s a sign of a people who will not take humiliation lying down.

The Palestinians in Gaza are a group of people under extreme pressures. Israel denies them access to land, sea and air, shoots at their civilians from apaches and F16s, and you wonder they are not a functioning country? Atta Tsokhek, lo?

And, maybe in order to make peace we do need to go back to the roots of the problem. Maybe otherwise all hope in real peace is but an illusion, Robert.

You say that “you” were here during the Bible times, and that “NO ONE was here since then.” Three huge assumptions there:

1. That the Jews of modern times are one continuum, encompassing space and time, categorically distinct and non integral with their surroundings wherever and whenever they’ve existed. I ask you to consider how healthy that assumption is, Robert. Just to yourself, you do not need to write an answer back.

2. That because the Israelites of the Bible times were there for the period that they were, that any modern Jew has “the right to return” to the same geographical location any time he or she may so wish, even if that means kicking out the people who are living there, who ..

3. According to your logic, are basically NO ONE. So NO ONE lived in this land, not before, and not after the Bible time. Any “no one” who happened to be there was a mere coincidence that had no classification, just faceless herds of nobodys. You even ask me “who is they?” with a serious tone, as if you really do not know. You guys are amazing, I have to admit that.

There is no parallel between Syria and Israel on the question of refugees. The Jewish properties in Syria are protected by the state and they are welcome to return at any time. The Arabs who fled that terrorist massacres conducted by the Haganah, Argun, and other terrorist Zionist groups, fled for their lives. They fled in terror, Robert. They have at least the same “right of return” as the Russian who is landing today.

It’s very simple, really. Don’t deny the Palestinians the right to this land, and they won’t deny you your right, and everyone can live peacefully. You will be welcome as equals and we would all have better future for our children.

You deserve a country and the Arabs who have been living there also deserve it. You are denying them the right to be there. What do you expect in return? Lets both stop denying each others rights and share the land. Share the Holy Land. It is holy to a whole bunch of others as well, Robert. And these others are not “NO ONE”. It can become a great human triumph. Something that all of us can be proud of.

see this – http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868353.html

i am will refer soon, but only small question which i would like to hear your reply on.

1. i am reminding you that the arab world was the one starting our independence war – what would you say about that?
2. what do you say about Gaza? since we left the HAMAS kills the Phatach and becoming a very dangerous place for israel. what will happen when we withdraw from the west bank (even complitely, including east jerusalem)?
3. although you keep telling that we shouldnt use the behavior of our neighbors as an excuse for ours, but can we behave differently when they attack us all the time, instead of rebuilding Gaza and their future?
4. finally, dont reply if it is personel – why dont you live in syria if you care about it so much?

thanks, robert
thanks, robert

in addition, please note that i am partially agree with you.
from my point of view israel is going down since 67, although it was eexpanded in teritory we are going down in moral and in our justification for our existence and independence.

unlike you, i think that we won the wars not because we were stronger. we werent, note that we were fighting against several countries and bigger armies, and also in the Yom Kipur war, in which you had an advantage at the begining it ended with teritories in our hands. this happened because of justice. because we were fighting for a reason, for exsitence and for survival. your soldiers, i am not sure that were convinced that they have to be in this war. why would they fight this war???
a similar procedure is happening with us here. we are getting tired of militant life and wars. mainly, since there is a feeling that it can be different. that we dont need to be in lebanon. that our goverments told us that when we are out of lebanon we will be bombed immediatly and it didnt happen. that we HAVE to stay in the teritories, and i think that we dont. however, this is the reason why we might become weaker. and i think that we have to make peace including compromising. returning the Golan for a real peace. returning the west bank. regarding east jerusalem a more sophisticated solution is required. but no rights to return and no two nations countries. one jewish nation and a palastinian country.
you have to accpet that we need our own country with a majority of jewish population.

still, hope to get your replies to my previus post.

thanks, robert

Mazen, I didn’t get a chance before to tell you how much I appreciated your well written and well argued post and subsequent comments, and how much I agree with you. We seem to be on the same wavelength, and you cover excellent arguments over which I only briefly passed. This brute force and this condescending mentality simply do not belong in a self-styled democracy. Looking forward to reading more from you.

Robert,

Thank you for writing back.

The problem did not start with the 1948 war. The problem has been, and still is that the Zionist ideology cannot and must not be accepted. Before you start telling me about the Jewish suffering, please allow me to remind you that most Zionists find it rather offending to correlate their establishing of the state with the Jewish suffering of WWII. The logic there is that that would undermine their own effort and achievement that had been going on since the 1890s. They basically do not want Israel to look like a charity given by the Europeans, but rather a well-deserved fruit of their own making.

That totally nullifies the argument that you seem to be trying to make, that the Arabs attacked you unprovoked in 1948. The 1920s, 30s, and 40s were full of events. The Zionist movement was moving Jews from Europe into Palestine under the protection of the British, who had double crossed the naive Arabs. In doing that, it is no secret that the Zionist movement used violence and terror as instruments in building their state and in gaining territory. In fact, Deir Yassin, and several other massacres were carried out by Zionist terrorist groups before the 1948 war.

On the question of Hamas and Fateh, I will rephrase my earlier answer to you. Given the extremely difficult conditions you have placed on the Palestinians in Gaza, and the non-relenting policy of assassinations, it is no wonder they have confusion and loss of balance. You make it sound as if there is a civil war between them, and that is not the case. The case is that Israel decided it wanted to pave the way before pulling out for the corrupt and decadent group that now runs Fateh. By killing sheikh Yassin, Rantisi, and poisoning Arafat (who was Fateh), the way was open for the Abu Mazen group. It is well known that chaos can be provoked into any population if you have the will and the means to do it. No, not all is Israel’s fault, but I’m saying that Gaza cannot be built into a functioning country with no access to sea or ports, and with an embargo placed to punish the population for making a democratic choice that they did. So your using it as a case to prove a point that all Arabs are crazy is not valid.

On your second note, let me say first say that, if winning a war (by the Arabs) would mean ruthless massacres to the innocent children, women, and men on your side, then I honestly do not want to see it happen. Not in the past, not now, and not in the future. But the thing is, we with all our faults, are not into the habit of genocide, Robert. Arabs and Jews have lived together in the past very successfully, as you may be aware.

When we teach our children about Moses in school, we teach them that he was a prophet who stood up to tyranny against the powerful, unjust Pharaoh. It does not matter if the Pharaoh is Egyptian, Babylonian, American, or even Israeli. The same thing applies to David and Goliath (your favorite metaphor). We teach and learn the fundamental universal messages from the scriptures. We call our children Mousa, Eissa, IsHaak, YaQoub, Dawood, and Suleiman, without any issues. Your teachings, on the other hand, seem to concentrate on a unidirectional “us” versus “them,” soaking all the stories with a hereditary and exclusive tone, and missing the universal message for a self-serving, much narrower version.

Zionism totally ruined everything, Robert. Zionism is based on 19th century European ideologies of ultra nationalism, racism, and the right of might. It is racist, outdated, unsustainable and should be abolished.

Zionism fails the first test of integrity: could a system co-exist with an exactly similar foe? Look at the fundamental axioms of Zionism, substitute the words to describe a different ideology and people, and try to read it again. Could you agree to it, Robert? Could you accept it if it were pointed against you?

But, you will surely say, we are special, we are different, we’re “God’s Chosen People” (if you’re religious,) or “we’ve suffered” if you’re not so religious, or something else that makes you a perpetual exception. In the end, you want a system that maintains steep advantages to your benefit, guaranteed forever by birth and heredity, while at the same time denying anything similar to the “others.” A murky Ukrainian who’d never set foot in the land can “return” and immediately start demanding the deportation of all Arabs, while the Palestinian who was uprooted by force and thrown out, simply has to shut up. Do you blame us for rejecting such a system? If you do, and you insist on a “I am better than you” attitude, then we’re wasting out time, Robert.

Do you think we’re happy about the state of perpetual non-peace that we’ve been living in for the last 60 years? We too, want to live and raise our children, but no matter how much we try to avoid the issue, it comes back and hits us in the face. Why? Because Zionism is tyranny to us, and tyranny cannot and must not be adhered to.

You say “you have to accpet that we need our own country with a majority of jewish population.” Again, the isolationist, exclusive tone in your logic. But this logic is deeply flawed. For just one thing, what would you do if and when the Arabs that you have inland are 40%, 50%, or even 60% by natural growth? You know you can’t beat them in that field, and it could happen in 20 years or so. What would you do then? Start a mass sterilization campaign? Throw them into the sea? How can you maintain such a system without committing atrocities? You can’t. It’s flawed by design.

You’re trying to maintain an unmaintainable situation. And increasingly, you are requiring more and more violence to accomplish it. But war and violence can only take you so far, and they have a painful recoil. 50 years ago, the people who felt the Zionist heat were relatively few. Today, your governments boast about a “security zone” that extends from the Pakistan to Morocco. Every single Iraqi who has suffered in the last 15 years absolutely believes that Israel indeed has had A LOT to do with his suffering. And, on Iran (I think you might want to review the facts,) Israel, the infamous AIPAC, and the Zionist Neo-cons have been nagging and nagging for the US to attack Iran.

Abolish Zionism. Let’s all be equal human beings for a change. Acknowledge the right of return to those you’ve uprooted and maimed. Many studies and books have been made on the subject. It can be done. It would give you the legitimacy and security you need. No one would be thrown in the sea, no one would lose, and the next generation would have a better future than it does now.

Mazen,

I applaud your articulate and extremely intelligent responses! I would like to read more about the history of the Zionist movement, the politics, and daily life of the people living in the region before the creation of Israel. Are there any materials that your would recommend that might give not only reliable information but varying opinions?

PS Are you married? 🙂

Christine,

Thank you for your uplifting comment. As you can see, Robert stopped replying, but I hope to have pushed in the right direction, even though the damage Zionism has done to people’s minds will take a lot of work to undo.

A better person to recommend literature would probably be Alex, the founder of the forum and a very intelligent man (and he’s not married 🙂 , while I am)

Please tell your friends about our forum. It helps to get the word out in this grass root, peaceful approach. I will also try to suggest a few books and pass them to Alex. Thank you again.

sorry for the delay,,…

this forum stopped being active and here i am looking at it again.

first, i would like to thnak for the stimulating post – indeed very interesting and informative.

hmmm,… hard to reply. i do agree to many of your notes, or at least i can understand them from your point of view. yes, it is clear to me that our fathers who made this dream come true were sophisticated and imperizlistic and maybe taking advantage of the peaceful nature of the local arabs.
however, note that you still dont understnad that we need and want a jewish israel. i think that in order to make it more secure we need to give more meaning to our minorities population (arabs, beduins, druz, cherkesi,..) and to be more contributive to our neighbors – and believe me we can contribute alot to the region.
there wont be a return of the people into israel – and i am saying that as a quite left wing person.
as to your comments that we think that we are better. hmm,.. yes, i can see people in israel, unfortunately, thinking like this but this nto the issue – and it will be better not to mention this.

i do hope that peace will find its place in our neghborhood.
i think that it is a matter of compromising. we have to understand your point of view, your crucial needs. you have to understand ours. in between both sides have to understand that it is politics, that it is better to share interets than to fight on them.
i just came back yesterday from Munich, in which there was a kind of arab convention (i think) and i saw on the street someone whose english sounded egyptian. i told him that he sounds egyptian and said that i am from tel aviv – he wellcomed me and said MY COUSIN. it was great to hear that. we seperated by wishing each other to enjoyu his stay. later in a reastaurant there were few persons from Dubai – again i came and send Shalom and they said MY COUSIN – exactly in these words. he even started to explain me that in the bible we were cousins and i agreed. i also met an iranian and we hsaked hands and smiled.

i see a peace in not more than 15-20 years. in this peace we will enjoy all of each other. the region will become a great and beutiful place to live. it willl be a great example for a freindly neighborhood.

you will see,.. unfortunatly many bad things might happen till than.

meanwhile, thanks again for your post and i wish you all the best.

robert

Robert,

Sorry for the delay, but I just saw your entry. I appreciate your concerns and apparent honesty, and can also understand what you say about your “need and want” to have a fully Jewish country.

The problem is, you can’t expect Arabs to just forget the humiliation and deportation from their lands, just so you can have a new home there. Without this acknowledgment and reconciliation there can never be real peace. Your country has inflicted severe injustices and untold pains on the indigenous land owners. If you expect them to just forget about it, I’m afraid you’re going to be disappointed.

I still think that your model is unsustainable. It has fundamental flaws. What if the Arab population grows demographically a few years from now? This is but one example of the many flaws in your model.

On the Arab side, we also have a long long way to go, but I think if you look with a bird’s eye perspective, you will see trial and error and a learning process taking place.

Yes, we are cousins, and fellow humans, and that’s exactly why you should allow your cousins to return to the land you have exiled them from at gunpoint.

The father of a friend of mine is a Turk who had fought in the Korean war. He told me that one day they met in the US with an old Korean guy and started talking. It turned out that they both were fighting at opposite ends of the same front at the same time. They hugged each other and started weeping.