Camille, ya3ni, it is your forum, u might as well stick to the question…

You didnt answer, or go near any of the questions you yourself posed.

Your post is telling in a very elegant way ofcourse, that Syria is shaping up, and that a lot of people wanna go back now. YAY.

But, you didn’t say anything about, what exactly can they do? what exactly will they do? What kind of incentives are they given [other than the wonderful, albeit, mortal Sabah Fakhri]. You didn’t even discuss the absolute disaster [at least to me] that is our diplomatic staff outside, or the bigger disaster that is Buthaina Shaaban and her self proclaimed Ministry [whether u agree or not]…

What your telling us, is that a lot of people wanna come back because of the oh-so-great Syrian drama?
it’s like you wrote a mawdo3 ta3beer 3an el-rabee3, my friend.

let me ask YOU [not the whole expat community you speak of] again…

1. What role could expatriates play in building a better Syria?
2. Are you satisfied with the government legislations concerning them?
3. Are you satisfied with the performance of the minister of Expatriates’ Affairs Dr. Buthayna Shaaban?

And since its the comment section now, please don’t apply any restrictions on the number of words… 😉

cheers.

You see, my friend Mr. Majhool who proposed this topic was supposed to write about these same questions and I was planning to turn his post into a good debate about the topic. But eventually he could not find much to say apparently!

So I will answer your questions in few hours : )

Alex, the sentence “Come back to Aleppo you idiot” and the question your friend asked you while contemplating the idea were an excellent metaphor of the question of Syrian Expats. I want to thank Majhool and yourself for this excellent subject, and I have one thing to ask of you:

Please consider making the subject life span two months instead of one, especially this one. I expect you are going to receive a flood of responses for this subject.

Alex,
One question, are they paying you man?! 🙂

I was living in Dubai for 4 years and all my friends who went to Syria for the summer vacation �??I couldn�??t risk trying my luck and go there my self- when returned, expressed how miserable everything is, garbage in the streets, no law, corrupt police everywhere, streets are bad and buildings are dirty and darkness, yes�?� streets were dark at night compared to shiny desert highways of UAE!

But I have to say that they all were amazed that people were smiling and going out to restaurants cafes �?�etc, as if there were high on drugs! I guess�?� in Syrian we say Tannesh Ta3esh Tanta3esh, this is the only explaination I can think of right now!

For another look at the situation in Syria I suggest here ( in Arabic ) for a very recent spontaneous reflection from a young man in Damascus 🙂 just as an example.

And yes�?� What about Buthayna?! To tell you the truth man�?� I don�??t like her at all. I hope she is reading this! 😉

Yazan,

you read my mind, I was like what about the expatriate? legistlations? Buthayna? why the bleed is happening? who is responisble? how can we fix it? etc.. to2 to2 to2

Alex,

wala tez3al. I took it upon my self to finish the article today and I did. so check your email.

Alex,

You have, in your post, misrepresnted expatriate’s hopes, challnges, needs, fears. You painted a picture far from the truth. Expatiraites have always romanticize about going back and that has nothing to do with Syria getting better ( as you would like your readers to believe) In fact many who go back only to leave again.

We miss our culutre, brothers, sisters, newborn relatives, sabah fakhri. etc…That is the truth and not becasue the reasons that necessated their departure changed.

I personaly, and from time to time, feel an overwhilming urge to just pack and go back. I get scared of ideas such as having one of my parents pass away while thousands of miles away and in need for “muwafaka from the keyada el korteyyah” just to attend a belated funeral.

That is reality my freind. these post-modern thoughts you presented are serious insuluts to what we go through far away from home.

Hammam ,
What you said about the problems that Syria has are true but many of these problems can be solved if people have initiatives and can work together to improve things , The Garbage in the street does not need an order from Damascus or the president to correct the dirty streets needs volunteers to clean the streets or donate money to do that going out to restaurants in Syria is expensive and there are many well to do people who can help charitable organisation can be the vehicles that can improve Syria as long as they can do more than building houses of worship.
Alex , Allentown has many Syrians from AOMAR ALHUSIN in Syria , I lived in Reading ,PA in the early Eighties ,
Your friend would do better for Syria if he can advance in his company and convince them to open a branch and training in Aleppo.

Hammam,

“They” don’t need to pay me for the opportunity to communicate with some of the smartest and best intentioned Syrians.

Mazen,

I will try to leave this topic for at least a month, especially if there is an ongoing debate until then.

To be honest with you, I was planning to start the next topic in two weeks. Syria’s regional relations (Lebanon, Saudi Arabia …) is begging to be discussed. There is so much drama and controversy … I would like to hear everyone’s opinion.

And Japanese Bashmouhandes Yazan:

You said:

let me ask YOU [not the whole expat community you speak of] again�?�

1. What role could expatriates play in building a better Syria?
2. Are you satisfied with the government legislations concerning them?
3. Are you satisfied with the performance of the minister of Expatriates�?? Affairs Dr. Buthayna Shaaban?

I never speak of “the whole” … if you catch me sounding like I am implying “the whole” please let me know. Above, I meant “many” … or “many more than before”

1) Expatriates can play a major role in building Syria. The average Syrian expat is probably richer, better educated, and more dynamic than the average Syrian who did not experience studying or living outside the city he was born in.

Although I agree with Majhool’s call for accountability and for the rule of law, I do not agree with his generalization and exaggeration. Sami Moubayed is not Syrian expat. He is doing all he can to help his country, despite the obvious difficulties of functioning within today’s Syria.

Similarly, many Syrian expats can contribute in many ways … each one knows what he is good at …

2) I am far from being an expert on government legislations on this topic… so I will not add any useless comments.

3) Dr. Shaaban part … I’ll continue tomorrow.

naim,
�??The Garbage in the street does not need an order from Damascus or the president�?�

What a nice clich�� the fact that people should not litter is accepted, but to lift the responsibility totaly off the people who�??s work is to clean, considering that fact that there is a �??GARBAGE TAX!�?� is bulshit.

Other thought… why not we see the �??President�?� cleaning the streets as an example for other Syrians�?� can he do that?

Since Mr. P said in his S/election speech that people should share the responsibility with the government, the government is not doing anything to make peoples lives easier�?� why? BECAUSE THEY SHOULD DO IT THEM SELVES!!! Then why the hell there is a government and a regime at all? �?�just to fuck countries like Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq!!

�??as they can do more than building houses of worship.�?�
Although I agree on the principle, why are you stuck on it man! Are you an atheist!? 😉

Naim! yes, on the subject of Allentown, PA.
I was completely bewildered by the start of the story of Camille’s friend Ghassan…lonely in Allentown. Apparently, that is like saying he moved to Deerborn and couldn’t find any Syrians.

I was planning to write a section for this topic and decided not to because i didn’t feel I had enough to say, but I had begun a short piece and ironically began it with the anecdote that only three weeks ago I was traveling in coastal Syria and stopped in a village called Amar al Husn! I had some coffee with a family who informed me that almost the entire village of several thousand people lives during the in ….. Allentown, Pennsylvania.
In winter, i was told, there are only about a few hundred, and in summer…everyone returns….
this father told me to go down to the playground up the street…and i will see all english speaking children…american children… playing together.
And somewhat related to Alex’s piece.. (despite the flak he got for not answering the pertinent questions)… my host.. also told me his own story of living in the States for sixteen years.. and then how he made the decision finally about five years ago to return to permanent life in Syria. He is much happier now, he told me.

As for the comparison between life in Dubai and in Syria…. is that a fair comparison…? aren’t these completely different lifestyles?
Actually, I also met in my travels… another village dweller visiting home from Dubai… and he was unequivocal in his hope to return to Syria which he missed a lot.
so… i will have to think about that…and get back to you.

Zenobia,

Thanks for the info but …my friend in Allentown might be moving to Australia soon : )

Thank you for confirming to Majhool what I was trying to say … that lately many more Syrians are thinking about returning… and they are thinking seriously about it. Before, we all had dreams about returning, like he suggested. But dreaming is not enough … some practical aspects are the deciding factors. Changes in the banking system, investment laws, seeing many Gulf Arabs willing to enter the Syrian market are all important factors in moving you from the stage of nostalgia to active planning to return.

As for Dubai .. what can I say. I probably know more Syrians in Dubai than anywhere else … Of course I prefer Damascus and Aleppo (and Dreikeesh) to Dubai. But I bet that there are more Syrians moving back to Dubai than those moving back to Damascus. Let’s try to see if there are any stats we can get from the Syrian embassy.

Hammam, we do have an atheist in the house … but it is not Naim.

Can you guess who it is?

And I will answer your question about Dr. Shabaan:

1) I give her top marks for motivation. She genuinely wants to make a difference… I can’t think of any other Syrian minister who demonstrated a similar level of energy.

2) She is an excellent communicator one-on-one. When she visited Canada last year she managed to impress Canadian officials and elected politicians who met with her. A Montreal MP told my father after she met Buthaina that she hopes Buthaina will be Syria’s next prime minister… they were delighted to meet her.

Same applies to Syrian expats in Montreal who found her very charming but were a bit disappointed in her intermittently baathist tone. couple of “Syrian opposition” members insulted her of course in a Q&A … I would much rather hear a baathist than a filthy mouthed “oppositionist”

But I agree that she is sometimes too much of an Arab nationalist. Most of us Syrians do not fall in that extreme.

3) as a semi-official spokesperson for Syria … mixed results. Like any spokesperson of any government, she has to say nothing negative about her government … this makes her lose credibility of course… sometimes she has to lie … again like the rest of them.

I am very much for limiting Buthaina’s role as a spokesperson for Syria. We need more independents .. like Sami Moubayed for example. Rime Allaf, Murhaf joujati …

I had a friendly discussion last week with one of Asharq al-Awsat’s editors about his paper’s anti-Syria role the past two years. He refused to accept my argument by pointing out that despite the many anti-Syria commentators, they allowed Syria a voice in the paper through Buthaina’s weekly column. I asked him to find another Syrian voice .. Buthaina could not answer any of the other charges from the Saudi and Egyptian writers in Asharq al-Awsat because she can’t criticize those Arab governments. So she ends up writing about Palestinian Olive trees and Iraqi women who lost their children in the war… the past six months she did not mention “syria” in any of her articles … expect the one this week actually.

4) As a Syrian minister of expatriate affairs… gain, she is excellent, trying the best she can with the very limited means that a minister in Syria has. I doubt that whoever replaces her will have any additional tools under his disposal to get more things done. What was not achieved so far probably has to much opposition elsewhere in the system (Syria).

But again, Buthaina is too controversial in her political positions. This makes her unwelcome by some Syrian expats, regardless of what she is achieving or not achieving. She should not mix the two jobs … defending Arab nationalism today then meeting Syrian expats in Chicago tomorrow do not mix too well… and public speaking is taking a lot of her time … she might make better use of that time to work on a more useful website for the ministry … something which has up to date information.

Finally, i will switch back to positive feedback. Buthaina is a brilliant woman. this opinion comes from Tim Sebastian ex-BBC host of the popular Hard talk, now the moderator of the Doha Debates. he told a friend of mine that he would love to have Buthaina on the Doha debates because she is a brilliant debater. He interviewed her on Hard talk and was very impressed with how she defended Syria’s position.

Conclusion?

Either drop most of the “Syria spokesperson” duties and concentrate on the ministry, or drop the ministry and the official link to the government, but become a full time, more independent, spokesperson for Syria.

Keeping both jobs leads to many conflicts. I understand much of the criticism here and elsewhere.

Alex dear Alex 🙂

I am not keen on knowing really. But my sensitivity to those who have a hostile attitude towards religion and/ or religious symbols is little high, I admit. Of course I would want expats money to go in productive educational and developmental channels, but I don�??t see that only places of worship are the bad choice.

You may be the atheist or anyone as a matter of fact, it doesn�??t have much to do when discussing ideas Objectively, I think.

Here are some �??faces�?� from syria that might say without words here and here, sometimes the site doesn�??t respond quick, I hope it will work smooth.

see ya

I am not an atheist : )

Alex,

For someone who always ready with hard-nosed critiques of all of our opinions, I have to say that this is a piece of sentimental fluff. Nicely written, heart-warming, sentimental fluff, but fluff non the less. It is every expat’s sentimental longing.

you didn’t know that he is fluffy underneath? …really very very fluffy… underneath all those lists and charts for measuring this and that…

hmm.
you didn’t know that Alex is fluffy and sentimental underneath? …really very very fluffy… underneath all those lists and charts for measuring this and that…

should i repeat that a third time?

yes please Zenobia, I still didn’t get it 🙂

lol
I wake up today to read those charges of being fluffy and sentimental !

Of course I am sentimental… or as sentimental as an engineer can be.

Here is an example: Bossa Nova music. I love it more than any music … because when I was 3 (again) my dad visited Brazil and came back with “the best of Brazilian Music” album. I used to play it the whole day… our apartment in Damascus was full of Bossa Nova music all the time.

And don’t forget that I “play music” … but this is the instrument I play.

I am not an atheist , I believe that religion is a way not a goal , a way to live in peace with our neighbors and do to them what we want them to do to us , people who do that deserve heaven no matter what their believes are. going to worship houses is to remind people to be good and consolidate their believes as is getting booster shots after vaccines to keep the immunity that they need.

Who’s looking for an Atheist?!

Regardless, It is not my place to say whether a new Mosque is more important than a good vinyl bar, just as long as you wouldn’t assume the opposite ofcourse.

How did this conversation turn that way anyway? we were talking about Mrs. Shaaban, whom used my dad’s next door neighbor most of her young years, in the outskirts of Homs’s el-Zahra neighborhood.
I think that she is too dogmatic for such a sensitive position, I think that she’s a lousy lawyer for a worse cause, and that she oughtta leave, period.

Yazan , i was asking to spend on charties as long as they are not house of worship , hammam thoghut that i were an Athiest.

Naim, Yazan,
I didn’t think anyone is atheist, just joked about it, then Alex mentioned that there is an atheist in the group… merely a joke thing.

I did, howvere, speculated about Yazan… 🙂 why man why! 🙂

hehe, you’re all talking about it as if it’s an insult, or more of an accusation…

I am not sure if this post is what Alex was referring to..
http://zozo2k3.blogspot.com/2007/02/im-atheist-moslem.html

Yazan,

Nice post, I totally liked it… especially the last ones… hahahahh 😀

BTW, do you have doubts some times that there is a GOD?
If Yes… then it is your answer!

�??Doubt is the other face of certainty�?�

follow up:

last ones=comments
😀

Do you doubt that there might not? 😉

It works both ways my friend.

You’re taking it to a whole new level, you’re question requires a follow up question, What is Truth? What is Reality? Is there a Reality that is independent from us?

Certainty, is an over-used word in our world. So, ofcourse I doubt.

The comments? lol…

I never delete a comment… 😉

Yazan,

I really don’t want to get into this, after all, it is not my duty to prove that there is a God or not. Besides, this forum is supposed to discuss other matters that is easier to feel it�??s existence. 🙂

However… Doubt my friend is when you are not sure about the existence of something, NOT about the Un-existence of it! I think.

Is there a reality that is independent from us? Big question, I tend to believe that there is, can I prove it to you? am not sure! Truth! I think it is there and we as humanity are trying to reach it, but to which extent we can go is another matter, and maybe we won�??t reach it as an absolute. Other than that, we can�??t move on in life if we don�??t believe, doesn�??t matter what we believe in, anything can be a belief, Rat Worship, Devil Worship, Dollar Worship, Power, Self, Nothingness�?� etc.

I have wrote few words in Arabic almost in this regard feel free to read it if you have time, you can find it on this thread, read all, or just scroll to my entry.
http://groups.google.com/group/public4islam/browse_thread/thread/41e3ee5070b005fa?hl=en

ciao

Yazan,

I really don’t want to get into this, after all, it is not my duty to prove that there is a God or not. Besides, this forum is supposed to discuss other matters that is easier to feel it�??s existence. 🙂

However… Doubt my friend is when you are not sure about the existence of something, NOT about the Un-existence of it! I think.

Is there a reality that is independent from us? Big question, I tend to believe that there is, can I prove it to you? am not sure! Truth! I think it is there and we as humanity are trying to reach it, but to which extent we can go is another matter, and maybe we won�??t reach it as an absolute. Other than that, we can�??t move on in life if we don�??t believe, doesn�??t matter what we believe in, anything can be a belief, Rat Worship, Devil Worship, Dollar Worship, Power, Self, Nothingness�?� etc.

I have wrote few words in Arabic almost in this regard feel free to read it if you have time, you can find it on this thread, read all, or just scroll to my entry.
http://groups.google.com/group/public4islam/browse_thread/thread/41e3ee5070b005fa?hl=en

Dewa mata ではま�?

Yazan,

All humans are limited to the nicely rounded maximum limits of 20Hz-20KHz in audible frequencies.

Can you tell me why we are limited to those frequencies?

Alex,

could you explain more please? and you can use my email address considering the fourm’s topic 🙂

You made me curious! 😀

At least we’re talking about something of substance, instead of Alex’s fluff!

What you wrote there is definitely interesting, except, that you assume that God exists, and you build on that.

I am not here to disprove God’s existence [and it is just as difficult as proving or disproving whether our lives as we know it now is merely a lucid dream], it was never my mission, and it’s of little importance to me. I have my own convictions, and like everything else in life they are not absolute. I don’t believe in absolutes [might be one of the reasons I don’t believe in God].

I won’t go as far as saying the universe centers around us humans. But so far, we are [to us] the only consciousness in this Universe, we “set” reality. Jostein Gaarder once described the Hubble space telescope as the “Eye of the Universe” I think that sums up what I believe in. We “see” the universe.

Alex? I have a feeling you’re gonna tell me?

No Yazan (and Hammam), I will not “tell you” : )

I’m sure you already heard all the typical arguments (for and against) … so I just wanted to suggest to both of you a different place where you can potentially find more questions, and maybe some answers.

The rest is up to you to dig : )

Unfortunately this is not a topic we can discuss next month on Creative Forum : )

Alex,

You like playing god don’t u! control freak!

lol ! …control freak yes, playing God no.

a paragraph from an article… these are the expats rights… enjoy

�?ف�? حا�?ة أسرة أخر�? ر�?ت إحد�? ا�?أ�?�?ات (د) �?�?ج�?ة ا�?س�?ر�?ة �?ح�?�?�? ا�?إ�?سا�? �?�?ف استدعت أج�?زة ا�?�?خابرات أطفا�?�?ا ا�?صغار ا�?ذ�?�? �?ا �?تجا�?ز ع�?ر أ�?بر�?�? (عبد ا�?�?�?) ث�?ا�?�? س�?�?ات �?استدراج�?�? �?است�?طا�?�?�? ع�? �?ا�?د�?�?: �?اذا �?ع�?�?�?�? داخ�? ا�?�?�?ز�? �?�?اذا �?فع�? �?�?اذا �?�?�?�?�? �?أ�?�? �?ذ�?ب �?�?�? �?ز�?ر�?�? ف�? ا�?�?�?اسبات �?ا�?أع�?اد �?�?�? �?�? أصحاب�? �?�?عارف�?�? �?ذ�?�? ف�? ا�?ت�?ا�? �?اضح �?صارخ �?ح�?�?�? ا�?طف�?�?ة ا�?ت�? �?ف�?ت�?ا شرعة ح�?�?�? ا�?إ�?سا�? ا�?عا�?�?�?ة”. ب�? إ�? ا�?�?ح�?�?�? �?�?ف�? �?ا أ�?ردت�? ا�?�?ج�?ة “�?�? �?�?تف با�?استفسار �?ت�?ج�?�? ا�?أسئ�?ة ب�? �?ا�? �?�?رر �?�?�?�?�? �?�?�? بص�?رة استفزاز�?ة �?ؤذ�?ة �?�?شاعر�?�? تجا�? �?ا�?د�?�?: �?�? تعرف�?�? أ�? أبا�?�? �?جر�?�? �?�? تعرف�?�? أ�?�?ا س�?ف �?�?�?�? ا�?�?بض ع�?�? أب�?�?�? �?�?�?ت�?�? أ�?ا�? أ�?ظار�?�?�? �?ر�?د أ�? �?خ�?ص ا�?�?ط�? �?�? ا�?حشرات أ�?ثا�? أب�?�?�?”. �?ف�? حادثة أخر�? “سأ�? ا�?�?ح�?�? ا�?طف�? (س�?�?�?) ا�?ذ�? �?�? �?تجا�?ز ا�?عاشرة: �?�? تحب أبا�?�? فأجاب ا�?طف�? �?�? ف�?ر�? ببراءة �?ع�?�? ف�?ا �?ا�? �?�? ا�?�?ح�?�? إ�?ا أ�? �?ج�? �?�? صفعة �?اس�?ة �?ع �?�?�? �?�? ا�?شتائ�? ا�?�?اذعة �?�?طف�? �?�?�?ا�?د�? �?�?�?أسرة بر�?ت�?ا”.

http://www.thisissyria.net/2007/10/19/syriatoday/05.html